Primary Teacher Resource Centre - Forum

peeceee · Joined: 26 Oct 2008 Posts: 1401 Location: Surrey

did I read somewhere, on here probably, that subject coordinators/leaders aren't required to do observations anymore or something along that line? can anyone refresh my memory or point me inthe right direction???

stevarnam · Joined: 14 Aug 2009 Posts: 99 Location: Chesterfield

By my understanding coordinators can still observe and monitor but should stricyly be an observation of learning and not teaching. So really this can probably be done in a number of ways and not just classroom obs e.g. work and planning scrutiny, pupil voice interviews, book sampling etc. If co-ordinators do come into lessons to observe teaching this must be recorded in your 3 hours per year of lesson observations towards your performance management.

twinkle298 · Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:01 pm Post subject:

This is interesting - we have an observation by each of the core subject co-ordinators throughout the year and a performance management obs. in addition. None of these are carried out by the head.
I know that the head is entitled to do whatever other observation and monitoring they feel necessary, but are we actually allowed to have five hours observation (only 1 is counted for performance management)? All of them are written up using our school form which judges teaching and learning and gives an ofsted grade.

psycho_jo · Joined: 26 Oct 2008 Posts: 309

didn't know that - where does it give that info?

peeceee · Joined: 26 Oct 2008 Posts: 1401 Location: Surrey

yes please, can someone point me to the info?

greyengine · Joined: 27 Oct 2008 Posts: 1761

Three hours is the amount in the model Performance Management policy produced by the TDA. You can see it here:
http://www.tda.gov.uk/teachers/pe...fferent/gatheringinformation.aspx
It's worth checking to see if your school has a PM policy (certainly should have) and what is in it.

stevarnam · Joined: 14 Aug 2009 Posts: 99 Location: Chesterfield

I think 5 hours is too much twinkle. It should only be 3 hours worth of formal observations. They can come and see you teach each half term, but should be for half an hour each time. Any other observations should focus on pupils' learning and not your teaching. Seems a little bit excessive to me. Are you expecting OFSTED???

tired teacher · Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 4:50 pm Post subject:

teacher's pay and conditions document this year will give you the details about subject leaders observing. The appendix showing recent changes.
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thehawk · Joined: 01 Nov 2008 Posts: 1986 Location: here

tired teacher · Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 8:53 pm Post subject:

Hi Hawk, That document hails from 2005 and is NUT so it should be different now with the pay and conditions document. It all seems to have gone very quiet on that front however. Don't understand what the unions are playing with not taking a stance on it, In Herts there were meetings but nothing came out to union reps.
HTs can do unlimited drop in visits or set things up for other people to do the same- a very murky playing field, I think.
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thehawk · Joined: 01 Nov 2008 Posts: 1986 Location: here

twinkle298 · Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 12:41 am Post subject:

So what is the conclusion? Are subject leaders allowed to do an hour's worth of formal observation of teaching and learning written up on the school's form and giving an ofsted grade? (in addition to an hour's observation for perf. man.)
Am I right in thinking that HT drop-ins should be informal, not properly written up and graded? So they are entitled to pop in to see a few minutes of a lesson and give informal feedback and use it for their monitoring?

tired teacher · Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 11:28 am Post subject:

Problem arises around who is a subject leader and what their responsibilities are. If they are TLR they are responsible and so can observe.

Many of you have carried on doing what you always have done and that means you are doing more than the pay and conditions say. I wouldn't say that grading a teacher is a classroom teacher's job. Glad I no longer have to do it.

Teachers are expected to contribute, both orally and in writing as appropriate, to curriculum development by sharing their professional expertise with colleagues and advising on effective practice. This does not mean that they can be expected to take on the responsibility of, and accountability for, a subject area or to manage other teachers without appropriate additional payment. Responsibilities of this nature should be part of a post that is in the leadership group or linked to a post which attracts a TLR on the basis set out in paragraph 22.

My county talked in length about this and initially gave draft guidance that observations were for TLR but general advice was OK. Then it went very quiet and I haven't heard anything for nearly a year.
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peeceee · Joined: 26 Oct 2008 Posts: 1401 Location: Surrey

I don't particularly WANT to observe, in fact I KNOW I don't want to observe. I would rather look at books and talk to children. I feel like the buck is being passed in our school to do it rather than HT. I don't have TLR. so if I am not required to I would like to say that to my HT..

Chilli Queen · Joined: 13 Aug 2009 Posts: 452 Location: Lancashire

If coordinators are observing, do they have to tell you when they're coming or can they just turn up at any point during the week?

thehawk · Joined: 01 Nov 2008 Posts: 1986 Location: here

as far as I know, only a HT can drop in uninvited. All others have to make an appointment.
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Chilli Queen · Joined: 13 Aug 2009 Posts: 452 Location: Lancashire

But does it say that in writing anywhere?

tired teacher · Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:05 pm Post subject:

do try and check this with your union. In your performance management policy it should really say who can make a drop in observation.
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Gertie Grumbles · Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 9:01 pm Post subject:

3 assessments in a year are reasonable and they should be tied in with perf management and SEF stuff.

Subject obs should be informative and not judgmental. Ie the coord needs to know what is being taught and how - ie not making a summative judgement on you. Those can be outside the 3 per year as long as you are noit named or graded.
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twinkle298 · Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:16 pm Post subject:

That is interesting Gertie. Our 4 are not tied in with performance management and are graded on a form where they have to specifically evaluate our teaching and pass judgment. We have one separate one for perf. man. purposes which follows the same structure.
So should we not be having these subject co-ordinator ofsted graded ones? Does it say this anywhere official?