Irishcailin

Please help maths question! I'm tearing my hair out!I've posted this in Primary but as there is more traffic here I thought I'd beg for help!
Maths this week has been a disaster. The worse week in my teaching career and it's only Tuesday. I've cried both days after the lessons and now I'm stuck and need some support. I've asked my maths coordinator to help and she said she has no time to help me but will hopefully have time in two weeks time. It'll be too late by then.
I'm meant to be teaching subtraction methods this week. I have 28 children 2c  3b with 1 child working at 1b a mixture of both year 5 classes.
So Monday I thought I was teaching the expanded method big huge mistake. Ended up using images and cubes to subject units from teen numbers lots of teacher modelling. Today we moved on using the numberline method and counting on. My extension group moved on to HTU subtracting TU. We watched maths mansion video as a stimulus before the lesson.
Where do I go next? All children except 4 are secure with number line method counting on where do I go next? Please help. I've spent the past three hours looking at progression documents, unit plans, app grids and our school calculation policy but I don't know what to do!
Any help will be appreciated!

queenie80

Hiya!
Last year I had year 4 but planned from year 3 objectives. In our progression it showed number line to column. One teacher showed me the expanded method which confused me so I didn;t teach that as I knew it would confuse my class.
I started off with the number line and also showed them the column method. I made sure they were secure with one of the methods then I let them use whichever method they preferred. I believe that one way does not suit all so if they can solve it and explain why they solved it good enough for me. Others may disagree but why just have one set way when our minds work differently!
I would make sure each group are secure in one way. You can challenge them by putting into word problems, and then change numbers to go over tens barrier. If column keep simple at first then goi onto borrowing  this could be guided groupd whilst another group say so number lines?
Hope to have been some help x

Irishcailin

Thank you I'm just so confused! I think I've looked into too much and have now confused myself if that makes sense.

wotsitagain

I feel your pain!
I think that if the children are secure with the number line method, then celebrate! They can subtract! Maybe do a lesson of something else tomorrow. Then return to the subtraction if you want to. There is a guidance paper on the progression of subtraction here:
http://nationalstrategies.standards.dcsf.gov.uk/node/19205
If this is largely what you have been looking at and not making any sense of, it is suggesting that you go now from the number line to the expanded method. This is where I go into the making numbers sound silly mode "Oh I have had to change 74 into sixtyfourteen!" type thing.
I also use tired teacher's (I think it was her who first brought it to my attention) rhyme "If there's more on the floor, I need ten more, more on the top, don't stop."
I hope this makes more sense to you and is of some help.

queenie80

Make sure your lowers undestand the concept of taking away. use cubes if need to and go right back to basics.
The move onto number line. Show the column method and let them choose. I didn;t even go there with the extended column as confused me and knew it would my chn. Invite a child up to demonstrate n board  maybe they can explain it in their terms or explain it differnetly to how we see it.
I would now just make sure they are secure in the method best for them. Lots of practice and questions. Make up own questions for language. More challenging numbers for higher etc.
Good luck x
(I was like this last year with time) Just couldnt get it!

wotsitagain

I agree with queenie too. If they are subtracting happily, then leave the next stage till later which is what I was trying to say. It is a good idea to try to get them to solve problems once they have a suitable calculating method.

queenie80

I am so happy when someone agrees with me on questions like these  makes me feel I do know what I am doing x

Irishcailin

I agree with you too Queenie
Thank you so much for your help and advice. I'm just thinking of my next steps now. I'm now doubting my ability which is not right.

queenie80

dont doubt yourself IC. The fact that you are posting shows you care and are thinking about them instead of just rushing on.
To stretch you 3bs make sure they are confident in method they know then lots of questions in different contexts. Then make numbers harder so they have to cross tens etc. If they are using the column method then simple to start where all numbers on top are bigger than bottom ones. Then move on where they have to borrow just once. Use stratws to demonstrate. Mine got this last year and everytime I asked them why they changed it for a 10 etc to they knew why they were doing it rather than just learning the rule so to speak!
x

Rainbow_Bright

Have replied in primary, ic. Also I call it stealing a ten, hundred etc as you don't give it back!

Night Garden

Wotsit, thank you for mentioning that rhyme. Never heard it before and wish I had last year.

queenie80

I call it borrowing but was told it was exchanging! I like borrowing as did that at school! I would say, 'let's go next door as they have plenty and so on'.
I like that rhyme! Luckily in year 2 so sticking with number line  I can cope with that

Irishcailin

Thank you everyone does this sound ok?
Tomorrow as a learning question: Can I use a method to subtract?
Vehicle for learning: number line method and column method
Success Criteria: I can use the numberline method. etc....
The word Subtraction on SB. Children using talk partners make a list of other words that mean subtract.
Recap numberline method from yesterday. Work through examples TU  TU and HTU  TU.
Support continue this method using TU numbers LSA to support.
CT model column addition. Work through with groups examples. Introduce rhyme "If there's more on the floor, I need ten more, more on the top, don't stop."
Ext working independently CT to work with core in one big guided group.
Does that sound ok?

wotsitagain

Irishcailin wrote:  Thank you everyone does this sound ok?
Tomorrow as a learning question: Can I use a method to subtract?
Vehicle for learning: number line method and column method
Success Criteria: I can use the numberline method. etc....
The word Subtraction on SB. Children using talk partners make a list of other words that mean subtract.
Recap numberline method from yesterday. Work through examples TU  TU and HTU  TU.
Support continue this method using TU numbers LSA to support.
CT model column addition subtraction?. Work through with groups examples. Introduce rhyme "If there's more on the floor, I need ten more, more on the top, don't stop."
Ext working independently CT to work with core in one big guided group.
Does that sound ok? 
Good to consolidate with groups and move others on. If it really does not work tomorrow, then don't beat yourself up or them, just tell them not to worry about it and that you will come back to it later in the year. I did using doubling and halving as a mental method of multiplying and dividing today and it was as though I had asked them to split the atom!

Irishcailin

Whoops what a mix up! Addition instead of subtraction
Thanks for all your help. I'm finally starting to feel better about tomorrow and sure if I cry tomorrow I cry. It's not the end of the world and it shows how much I care for my children and their potential.

queenie80

Sounds fine. Just go with it and if doesn't work out then give a rest and go back to it again in a few days. Good luck x

greyengine

Hope it goes well, IC. Haven't really anything to add to the already great advice you've been given, other than to say that although I think the expanded method is a great idea for showing children how column subtraction works, I do find in practice, they tend to find it confusing. I tend to show it them alongside column subtraction so they can see how it works.
Had a boy in my bottom group yesterday (probably around 2b) and really struggles with maths. I was doing a guided session with his group on column subtraction and the others were getting it with more or less success. Somehow he could just do it. Watched him do several with HTU that involved exchanging, and he just whizzed through them without actually writing down any of the intermediate steps. When I asked him, he said he'd got the numbers in his head, and his method made some sort of sense although it wasn't the one I'd taught him. But it was obviously working for him so I left him alone. Strange moment!

tired teacher

Another thing you can do as a step towards the column method is make sure they can break a number down into other numbers
126 = 100 + 20 + 6
126 = 110 + 10 + 6
126 = 100 + 10 + 16
126 = 90 + 20 + 16
etc
then they will be happier checking that they really have got the same number on the top and the bottom.
It makes a good starter and use a calculator at the end to check each other's answers.
