FAO smallholder or ebd or anyone .... HELP!

tog · FAO smallholder or ebd or anyone .... HELP!

Need some URGENT help with a SEN/Behaviour problem if anyone can offer me some advice.
Don't want to give too many specific details on here but one of my SEN chn who has been fine since September (apart from SEN-related difficulties, obviously) has suddenly started exhibiting extreme behaviour problems - my difficulty is that although we have a lot of SEN chn, the majority of staff are either openly or covertly anti-inclusion, so I really really need a magic "cure" asap or I fear he will end up excluded - also I am the only person at the moment who can "cope" with the behaviour but cannot do this and teach the rest of the class at the same time...Because he has a combination of SEN issues, many of the "usual" behaviour management strategies are not appropriate.
Have talked to parents and raised my concerns about the change in behaviour with the relevent members of staff.
This week has just been constant "crisis-management" so I haven't really had a chance to see the wood for the trees and don't know where to start! HELP!!!

smallholder

Feel free to pm me and I'll try to help if I can but ebd is probably going to be your best bet.

There are no cures or magic wands so neither of us will be able to supply that!

trinity0097

Surely the fact that you can only manage him by ignoring the rest of the class would suggest that a full mainstream setting is not appropriate for him or the rest of the class at the time being, after all every child matters is the mantra of the day, not one child matters to the detriment of the rest.

Could he have part of the day out of the class in a small group/individual time with someone? Perhaps they could get to the bottom of why the change in behaviour, has something changed at home that has made him change his behaviour, once you know the reason why you're half-way towards finding a more permanent solution.

tog

Thanks - I know there's not really an instant cure just know that we can't have another week like this one - I at least need to come up with some kind of plan that his TA can manage and that will show people that SEN and mainstream are not mutually exclusive! (Nothing against Special Schools either, but that is not an option for us, and also have concerns about where you draw the line - I do think that children who CAN learn in a mainstream school should, even if it does challenge their teachers. Personally have learned a lot from the SEN pupils I have taught.) (Sorry, back on my "inclusion" soapbox!)

tog

^

Thanks for the PMs smallholder - will let you know how we get on! Think I need to "prove" to the TAs that they CAN manage his behaviour.....

tog

tog

Still struggling with this! Problem now is that I seem to be the only staff member who is not terrified of him.......

Moospan

Can you now bring in some external help? Contact your local PRU or is there a school with a specialist resource base for behaviour? Get hold of your school support team person and ask for immediate assistance and someone to come in and do some anger management sessions/social stories. Then start to take steps towards a statutory assessment if you can. Your head should not be allowing you to deal with this on your own.

tog

Thanks Moospan - statutory assessment is underway and pretty sure we should get a statement....someday! We do get some outside support from special school but they are at a loss now too!

dillsage

Just to say - thinking of you. It sounds very difficult, especially if you feel on your own in wanting to support the child.

How old is the child? (Though maybe you'd rather not say.) The child that we had that was violent and abusive towards other children and staff when in year R and 1 did eventually end up in a residential school out of county. Though not before we lost a number of the more able pupils in that class (and mostly lost girls, so two year groups are now rather weighted towards less able boys).

ebd35

sorry only have seen this ;o)
Couple f questions.... age....strengths...interests.... most importantly what has happened in this child's life to have caused such a change. Major alarm bells ringing. Does he have siblings and is there a change with them as well? Does he have a diagnosis or if not what would you be leaning towards? what motivates him... does he have friends?

sorry for all the questions but trying to build a pic ;o)

tog

Thanks ebd - my alarm bells have been ringing too! Child is 5 and ASD + ADHD. Sibling's behaviour not affected.

Motivators only work for a few days so I have to keep changing them - favourite toy/object - whatever the current one is - can be used as a "bribe" and sometimes stickers and food (sshhhh!). Doesn't have real friends but likes the company of other children, like the motivators the current favourite changes regularly! Other children are actually very tolerant of him and generally quite helpful. Concentration is best when doing anything "messy" eg sand/water/paint/sensory type activities, also likes cars, balls etc but more quickly distracted.

ebd35

what sort of extreme behaviours?

ebd35

tog.... off to bed but will check back tomorrow

tog

Sorry, missed you again!
Pmed you details but has been violent towards staff who are now unwilling/unable to deal with him.

ebd35

Have pm'd you back.

smallholder

Happy to help again Tog if I can at all - feel free to pm me, but I am sure ebd has much more experience than me to offer.

tog

Thanks to you both - anyone free tomorrow to give me a break for an hour or so?! (well it was worth a try!)

Any suggestions for improving relationships (child + TAs), and for activities which will hold his concentration for more than 20 seconds????

Also smallholder - with your "language expert" hat on - his language is progressing more or less (in my inexpert opinion) along a fairly "normal" route although very much delayed and limited expressive vocabulary - however he consistently mixes up pronouns (e.g. refers to self as "he") and I don't know if he understands them either - makes conversations very confusing!

tog

Actually just read that and now I am not sure whether it is the pronouns he is confused about or whether he actually knows who he is....certainly has very poor spatial awareness and "body" awareness (proprioception?)....but can recognise photos of self but does he know that is himself or is he just naming the boy in the pictures......!!!! Wish I could mind read!

smallholder

Difficulty with pronouns is a feature of ASD. It usually comes from not having what is called theory of mind, i.e not being able to see things from someone else's point of view. This can persist for a number of years. At our school newcomers often find the way we converse with our pupils strange . ie. Jamie put Jamies hat on the peg ( instead of using your) The same difficulty can happen with this and that - to understand these you need to understand and share the same referrent as someone else. You can try teaching it, but personally it doesn't seem high on your list of priorities - better to encourage staff to adapt their language for the time being.

Re his concentration - how is he with computers?

tog

Yes you're right, not a priority! Doesn't like computers at all - if you're lucky he will watch something like a CBeebies song for about a minute - haven't found anything else that he is interested in at all on the computer.
(The other ASD pupil I have loves the computer and it is an excellent reinforcer for getting him to do something he's not keen on. )

smallholder

Do you use a visual schedule with him for his individual tasks?

smallholder

-and.......going back to the pronouns - just to be clear -getting all staff to change their language and avoid using pronouns when talking to him is a priority - getting him to change to using pronouns isn't!

tog

smallholder

Some pupils respond better to symbols than photos- may be worth a try.

Are the task pics arranged in order as a little schedule he is to do with a pic of his reward at the bottom? Pupil ticks off the item on the sheet or takes off the pic and puts it in finished basket. Then moves on to next item, down to the reward pic which he exchanges for the real reward.

Re his distractability? Where does he sit when doing a task. What is on the table? What is in his sight line? What else can he hear? Does anyone walk past distracting him? Is the task clearly identified with an obvious finish?

tog

Haven't used a visual schedule with him like you describe so it might be worth trying (just hide it when the special school person comes in as they are anti visual aid things...!)
For his tasks he sits at a table at the edge of the room - nothing on table except task materials and clipboard with his timetable and whatever for the TA, if he doesn't turn round he can just see wall and window sill. The classroom is pretty busy though, and the other children are moving around all the time really as they are doing more practical activities than sitting quietly at tables. (We did experiment with him working in another area outside the classroom but actually the distractions were even worse there.)
The tasks the special school have provided are things like pointing to parts of body, naming pictures, giving sounds for animals etc so are dependent on adult. I have also added things like picture matching, puzzles, colour sorting, which do have an obvious end. Because his concentration is short each activity only lasts a couple of minutes really and so after a couple of "tasks" we reward with something he likes such as going outside to play with the sand. Couldn't keep up the task-task-task thing all day - I'd need hundreds and am struggling to find things that are suitable as it is!

smallholder

Oh I agree Tog you can't keep it up all day, but at specified times this needs to be expected of him, so that he gets into a daily work routine. I am gobsmacked that you have been told not to use visual approaches as this is the foundation of good practice with such pupils. I’m including some ideas here – I know they take time to set up but so does managing a child like this when they are out of control. It is time efficient in the long run. You probably do some of them anyway, but for others they may be new.

Work area - If you are able to get hold of any screens or rearrange furniture slightly so that his work area becomes a bit more booth like - referred to as a work station. No lovely distracting displays in front of his eyes or thoroughfares or views from a window (yes I know it goes against the grain!) He goes here to do his specified work at certain times during the day.
Work to be done is on left handside in basket/tray. Task schedule on desk. Empty finished basket for him to put completed task in on right hand side.

Visual timetables and work schedules
Timetable– for the whole day or two one for morning/afternoon with subjects/activities/lunchtime that he will be taking part in, including his work station times
You can use this to create one
http://www.helpkidzlearn.com/parents/interactive_visual_timetable.html
and you can import your own pics to it. Always make a ‘change’ picture too so that when unavoidable changes happen to usual routines you can build this in too. Use this when you meet and greet kids to explain the day. Ask TA to go over this with him afterwards too.

Visual work/task schedules for use in work station
Set out like a timetable or as a to do list – this may just last 10 mins. You can use the same helpkidz learn programme to do it or it can be your own stick drawings on a wipe on wipe off laminated sheet. Split the 10 minute session into the activities he is to do, e.g jigsaw, pegboard, tracing etc. Loads of ideas on the ‘all join in website’ Pupil ticks off or peels off velcroed pic as each task is done and puts in finished basket along with completed jigsaw whatever. Schedule has reward at the end. When all task items are in basket completed, pupil gets reward. Remember to choose activities the pupil can do for this – the learning objective here is not so much the task but the learning how to work at specified time and complete a task

The All Join in website is fab http://www.alljoinin.net/All_Join_In/Welcome.html and goes into work stations and how to use them in much more detail in their Autism section here http://www.alljoinin.net/All_Join_In/Autism_files/workstation.pdf Look at the Activity gallery for ideas for simple activities that will be suitable for his independent work station time.

If you also look under the communication section there are some interactive activities for turn taking and shared attention which will be ideal for your pupil to do with your TA as well. These are things a very young child/baby would learn to do with parents, and are the cornerstone of communication but children with special needs often need to work on these for longer. Put these additional activities into his timetable for the day too.
There – that should keep you busy!!
Rolling Eyes

tog

Thank you so much sh - for the advice and links and support...had a terrible day today so it was really good to come home and see this - you make it sound all quite do-able and reasonable....I know it is not a quick-fix thing but I do know that you and Ebd know what you are talking about whereas in mainstream often each problem is a new one for us!
Am off to bed now but have laminating sheets and velcro ready and waiting for the morning.....
x

dillsage

I applaud you, tog. It's tough enough doing all that as a TA, but as a class teacher, on top of everything else we have... Well worth it though.

It has also made me think a bit harder about the very distractable (but not autistic) child in my class.

I keep thinking of you and following this with great interest. Take care.

tog

Thanks. Would be easier if the rest of them weren't as loopy as they are! Not the most docile of classes I'm afraid. Hoping for a better day tomorrow...and no more wet playtimes!

dillsage

Wet play is not good if they're a bit wild!

tog

smallholder

Hope today is a bit better for you Tog. I am full of admiration for you trying to include this pupil. It is far from easy and you are right there is no quick fix. It often takes much longer than many teachers think for a strategy to work. Persistence is the key. But persistence when you have scores of other children and 'standards' pressures to deal with is not easily achieved. A special school where the practices I have descibed are more common place, doesn't wave a magic wand either -we still have days when we our efforts with a particular child feel such a struggle.

tog

Thanks - was a better day today. It is actually a good thing really that I have been working (aka wrestling!) with him so much as I have a much better idea of his needs now, and also more understanding of the challenges faced by the TAs! We have a way to go but can see a glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel....
Am good at persistence if that is what it needs! Just finding it all very tiring - mentally and physically - but feel that if I can help him through this now it will save a lot of worse problems later on.

Thanks to all for the advice and ideas and support - helps so much to have somewhere to talk these things through and "experts" on tap!

x

tog

Meant to say, thanks smallholder for the links, the alljoinin one in particular has loads of really useful things - am going to need more SEN children to get through all the ideas....!

smallholder

Glad it was a better day. One thing I have learned over the years is that there are no 'experts' who can come along and have all the answers Tog. Each new child that we work with in whatever setting adds to our own knowledge which we can hopefully share with others. It is our collective experience and problem solving which is the real 'expertise' if such a thing exists.

smallholder

(((((((((((This 'issue' has been running for months if not years - always threads about it on the other site.)))))))))))))

How wierd ------this post was meant to go on the Sparklebox thread and has popped up here - spooky! Just ignore

ebd35

Hey tog glad to hear today was better. I had the day from Hades yesterday so didnt get on here

Smallholder how I'd LOVE you to work at our school What an asset you would be

In fact that goes for you as well Tog I applaud your taking the time to question, research, reflect, ask and implement things to make this boy's time with you better!!!! If those at your school aren't praising you always remember us lot here will ;o) xxx

ps Gin and tonics work well ;o)

tog

smallholder

ebd35

[/quote]
What a nice thing to say ebd - but the truth is I can be a bit much at times! Rolling Eyes

[/quote]

and what's wrong with that ;o)

tog

Still making progress here - thanks again for the support. Not there yet but definitely better - more a token protest now, rather than trying to murder me! Just hoping I don't do anything to unsettle things as need to get him back to doing "proper" tasks - while the behaviour was such an issue I have just been doing very simple tasks with him and things he usually enjoys, the "battle" then was just about doing what he has been told, and not over the activity itself, if that makes sense. Trouble is we are fast approaching that time of year when normal routines go haywire - rehearsals, special events and so on....uh oh! And it's not just the ones with ASD who get unsettled by all that! (Think it's time to take your advice about the G&T, ebd!)

ebd35

NOT TO POP YOUR BUBBLE BUT SOMETIMES THINGS GO BACK A STEP OR THREE AFTER THE WEEKEND ;O(

ebd35

oooops sorry for caps ; Cool

smallholder

She doesn't half shout that ebd when she gets going! LOL!

Try using a visual timetable with a change card in it to help prepare him for all the xmas activities Tog.

ebd35

Oi it's not my problem. Don't you know I blame EVERYONE for EVERYTHING!! So must be your fault(s)!!!

;o)

tog

ebd35

???Give them G and T but tell them it's gifted and talented ;o)

dillsage

Glad to hear things are looking a bit more encouraging tog. Hope ebd's predictions are wrong (though don't get too down if they're right!). Have a good weekend anyway and pat yourself on the back for not giving up on him. And drink the G&T.